Watched the OT after seeing AOTC...thoughts about relationships (some spoilers)

Ok, here are some observations after watching the OT over the past couple of days:

1. Anakin gave Obi-Wan his light sabre to give to his son. 'Your father wanted you to have this, when you were old enough.' Ergo, Anakin knew he had a son, and he knew that Obi-Wan would keep in touch with (or take care of) Luke. Or, quite possibly, Obi-Wan made the whole thing up just to get Luke interested in the Force. <shrug>

2. Anakin did NOT know about his daughter. Despite the fact that Luke and Leia were twins, Anakin only knew about Luke. 'Sister...so you have a twin sister. Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me.' So, Anakin left while Padme' was pregnant and knew he had at least a son. However, the original draft of the script for ROTJ has this section, which was omitted from the film: 'When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible.' Perhaps Lucas hadn't worked it out in his own mind yet (he was inventing all of this, after all) so he dropped this dialogue and figured he fill in the gaps later.

3. Leia has memories of her mother, who died when Leia was very young. Leia only remembered 'Just...images, really. Feelings. She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad.' That jives with this portion of the ROTJ script that was omitted from the film: 'your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan.' So Padme' lived briefly with Leia on Alderaan, long enough for Leia to have a memory of her, and then either died or left Leia there and Leia was told she died. Either way, she never saw Luke again.

4. Who exactly was related to Owen Lars? We're told in AOTC that Owen is Anakin's step-brother, since Clieg Lars married Shmi Skywalker. The small and medium-sized tombstones next to Shmi's grave indicate that a child and possibly another woman, Clieg's first wife, had died. It's speculated that the small grave was Obi-Wan's (Ben's), since children are taken to train as Jedi at a very early age. Perhaps Clieg considered Obi-Wan dead. In the early ROTJ script, Obi-Wan says to Luke: 'So I took you to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine'. This would explain why Obi-Wan would even consider Owen as a foster-father for Luke. The possible bad blood between Owen and Obi-Wan ('That wizard's just a crazy old man!' shows that perhaps Owen resented Obi-Wan leaving the family (or was jealous) and the grief that caused Clieg and his first wife. In The Phantom Menace, it was Obi-Wan's idea to land the queen's ship on Tatooine, so that *hints* at familiarity. <shrug again>

So Lucas has a quite a few questions to answer for Episode III. Many of these questions have already been brought up on this newsgroup. Excuse me for the rehash: 1. How much did Anakin really know about Padme's pregnancy, or Luke and Leia specifically? 2. Why did Obi-Wan specifically leave Luke with Owen Lars? 3. Why didn't Luke take on the Lars last name instead of staying with Skywalker? 4. Whose tombstones where those? 5. Why would Anakin give his light sabre willingly to Obi-Wan to give to his son if Anakin and Obi-Wan end up duking it out over a molten pit? 6. How did it effect Padme' to give up her son, yet keep her daughter? It must have been hell to live like that, always in fear that they'd be discovered and killed. 7. Was there really NO father for Anakin, or will we discover that Shmi was somehow knocked-up by something other than the mitichloreans? 8. Had Obi-Wan arranged for Clieg to buy Shmi, or was it just random chance? If Clieg lived 'all the way on the other side of Mos Eisley', it doesn't seem likely that he'd go to Mos Espa just to buy a slave.

Rather than speculate further about any of these, I eagerly await Episode III. I hope Lucas answers these questions (and more) to everyone's satisfaction. Unlikely, but I can hope! Too bad it's 3 years away...

This is pretty sad. You guys are waiting around for Lucas to 'tie everything up' even after seeing how he completely screwed up on the last two movies. You're worse than X-Files fans expecting the series finale to be anything other than more of the same crap that ruined *that* series. Ep III will be more of the same animated load of crap these last two movies were. Face it, Star Wars is a kiddie flick designed to sell toys. Whatever was left of any hope that Lucas would 'rescue' Star Wars with AOTC died 5mins into the film.

RstJ Darth Jar-Jar.

: Ok, here are some observations after watching the OT over the past couple of : days: : : 1. Anakin gave Obi-Wan his light sabre to give to his son. 'Your father : wanted you to have this, when you were old enough.' Ergo, Anakin knew he had : a son, and he knew that Obi-Wan would keep in touch with (or take care of) : Luke. Or, quite possibly, Obi-Wan made the whole thing up just to get Luke : interested in the Force. <shrug> : : 2. Anakin did NOT know about his daughter. Despite the fact that Luke and : Leia were twins, Anakin only knew about Luke. 'Sister...so you have a twin : sister. Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me.' So, Anakin left while Padme' : was pregnant and knew he had at least a son. However, the original draft of : the script for ROTJ has this section, which was omitted from the film: 'When : your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I : knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as : possible, for as long as possible.' Perhaps Lucas hadn't worked it out in : his own mind yet (he was inventing all of this, after all) so he dropped : this dialogue and figured he fill in the gaps later. : : 3. Leia has memories of her mother, who died when Leia was very young. Leia : only remembered 'Just...images, really. Feelings. She was very beautiful. : Kind, but...sad.' That jives with this portion of the ROTJ script that was : omitted from the film: 'your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of : Senator Organa, on Alderaan.' So Padme' lived briefly with Leia on Alderaan, : long enough for Leia to have a memory of her, and then either died or left : Leia there and Leia was told she died. Either way, she never saw Luke again. : : 4. Who exactly was related to Owen Lars? We're told in AOTC that Owen is : Anakin's step-brother, since Clieg Lars married Shmi Skywalker. The small : and medium-sized tombstones next to Shmi's grave indicate that a child and : possibly another woman, Clieg's first wife, had died. It's speculated that : the small grave was Obi-Wan's (Ben's), since children are taken to train as : Jedi at a very early age. Perhaps Clieg considered Obi-Wan dead. In the : early ROTJ script, Obi-Wan says to Luke: 'So I took you to live with my : brother Owen on Tatooine'. This would explain why Obi-Wan would even : consider Owen as a foster-father for Luke. The possible bad blood between : Owen and Obi-Wan ('That wizard's just a crazy old man!' shows that perhaps : Owen resented Obi-Wan leaving the family (or was jealous) and the grief that : caused Clieg and his first wife. In The Phantom Menace, it was Obi-Wan's : idea to land the queen's ship on Tatooine, so that *hints* at familiarity. : <shrug again> : : So Lucas has a quite a few questions to answer for Episode III. Many of : these questions have already been brought up on this newsgroup. Excuse me : for the rehash: : 1. How much did Anakin really know about Padme's pregnancy, or Luke and Leia : specifically? : 2. Why did Obi-Wan specifically leave Luke with Owen Lars? : 3. Why didn't Luke take on the Lars last name instead of staying with : Skywalker? : 4. Whose tombstones where those? : 5. Why would Anakin give his light sabre willingly to Obi-Wan to give to his : son if Anakin and Obi-Wan end up duking it out over a molten pit? : 6. How did it effect Padme' to give up her son, yet keep her daughter? It : must have been hell to live like that, always in fear that they'd be : discovered and killed. : 7. Was there really NO father for Anakin, or will we discover that Shmi was : somehow knocked-up by something other than the mitichloreans? : 8. Had Obi-Wan arranged for Clieg to buy Shmi, or was it just random chance? : If Clieg lived 'all the way on the other side of Mos Eisley', it doesn't : seem likely that he'd go to Mos Espa just to buy a slave. : : Rather than speculate further about any of these, I eagerly await Episode : III. I hope Lucas answers these questions (and more) to everyone's : satisfaction. Unlikely, but I can hope! Too bad it's 3 years away... : : : :

i respectfully disagree... I thought that AOTC was a great movie... not perfect, by any standard, but great nonetheless...

I think he will be trying extra hard to tie up all the loose ends, though I wouldn't be surprised if he misses a couple.

Star Wars IS a kiddy flick... actually designed to entertain... *shock* Star Wars doesn't need rescuing, it's fine just the way it is.

Robert St. James (el corazon ardiente) wrote:

John Savard

Of course, the whole OT timetable just FEELS off with the ages Lucas chose for the new trilogy. Anakin was a heck of a pilot, and a good friend... this sets up Anakin and ObiWan as peers. But they aren't... and they sure as hell aren't good friends now!

The only way around this - Padme is pregnant, and Anakin tells ObiWan - if anything ever happens to me, look after my family, and give my child this watch...oh sorry, went Pulp Fiction there...

So he knocks up Padme but then leaves before she delivers - weak.

again.

This is gonna be handled very wierdly...or badly...or both...

He likely knows she's pregnant, but cannot be around for the delivery, or he'd know he'd had twins...

This also sets up the quick turn from Anakin to Vader, occurring between knocking Padme up and the birth...

Well, conveniently, he'd be his uncle - by marriage.

Lars sounds gay.

The Others.

Because Lucas screwed up the ObiWan/Anakin relationship...

It'd be hell, but it also be somewhat contrived. I mean really...

She was a mail order bride...

That's a tall order he's got...

Oh yeah, Ben's gonna tell Luke: 'Your father was a brash hothead. I never liked

He should have. 'Your Dad was a whiney snotnosed punk, who blamed me for everythin wrong in his life'.

Probably nothing. Its possible that the Emperor filled in the gaps for him after the Battle of Yavin. Not that in ANH: Vader has (or shows) absolutely no inkling that Leia is his daughter and that 'strong in the force' pilot is his son.

his son if Anakin and Obi-Wan end up duking it out over a molten pit?

Obi-wan made it up. By the time they were fighting, Anakin was waaaay gone.

Obviously the Emperor has things under control and is close to killing all of them. Padme obviously trusts Obi-wan. And its better to split them up putting out of the Emperor's reach. I must say the Emperor must be pretty dumb not to suspect where they'd run off too though.... duhhh Tatoonie?

Palapatine, the Emperor, was Anakin's father.

Got ya hooked now!!!

Go ahead 'Munkus', make my day...

In the same scene Ben tells Luke that his father was murdered by a young Jedi named Darth Vader. Anakin never knew he had any kids and only learned of Luke's existence after the boy destroyed the Death Star. Ben told him that, as you wrote in your last line, to give him a reason to become a Jedi.

Jedi.

But that is an outright lie, from ANY point of view. The dialogue is too natural - the only possible way to take the conversation is that indeed, ObiWan was told to give the lightsabre to Luke.

Otherwise, it's just an out and out lie.

Or true from a certain point of view. Maybe Anakin one day says that he would like a son and would like to pass on his lightsabre to introduce his son to the force. Then when he has a son, Obi-Wan does it for him and says in his own way that it was what Anakin