AATA - Reasonable Doubts

Possible Spoilers: X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X

AATA - An Ally Turns Away, as proposed by The Executor is not a bad title, and he should be commended for the rather lengthy thought process put into coming up with this title.

The thought process, however seems to have overlooked a possible title theme, and that leads me to doubt, with good reason that AATA will ever be the title of Episode 3. I propose a different title theme that will more likely be adhered to by Lucasfilm:

Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace (Bad Guys) Episode 2 - Attack of the Clones (Good Guys) Episode 3 - ???????????????????? (Bad Guys)

Episode 4 - A New Hope (Good Guys) Episode 5 - The Empire Strikes Back (Bad Guys) Episode 6 - Return of the Jedi (Good Guys)

In the first trilogy, Lucas' focus was on the Good Guys return to power. A New Hope in reference to the Good Guys. The middle film offering setbacks (The Bad Guy Strikes Back), and the last film focuses on and is titled to reflect the Triumph of the Good Guys.

It stands to reason that the Prequels will follow that same pattern, and have up to this point. The Phantom Menace is of course the rise of the Sith (Bad Guys). Attack of the Clones represents the Good Guys striking back. (This, from all indications that the Clone Army in ATOC at least starts out on the same side as the Jedi).

Which leads us to Episode 3, which, by this Title Format cannot be An Ally Turns Away.

I will not be so presumtuous as to put forth my own title idea. That is going to come from official sources many months down the line....I believe that that title will, though, refer to the Bad Guys (Sith, Empire, Etc).

For now....I'm content to call it Episode 3....

Well, actually you could argue, the ally turns bad.

Anyway there's a difference to reference and mentions.
http://www.petitiononline.com/AATA/petition.html

Indeed, POSSIBLE. But not likely.

The 'Possible' in reference to spoilers only indicated that there was a bit of plot point in my post...not that my title theory was a Spoiler...Just wanted to clarify...

Go ahead 'The Arctic Moose', make my day...

Jar Jar Binks. 'Mesa goen bad now okiday.'

But the ally turns out to be the bad guy. Besides, the clones are the bad guys in AOTC, mesa thinks. And, my pattern is based on who is MENTIONED in the title, not on which side wins. The title ROTJ contains multiple meanings, the Jedi COULD be the Jedi Order, Luke or Anakin, we only assume that the good guys are mentioned. That's why I think ep3 will have multiple meanings too, meaning that it could focuse on both the bad guys and the good guys, depending on the point of view. I think George intended ROTJ to mean different things, and that there really isn't an answer to what the title really means. That's why it's such a good title.

title.

Somewhere in all the threads, someone said nobody is offering a reason why AATA would not be a good title. I am simply offering one.

There does seem to be a pattern as far as who is reffered to (mentioned) in the titles. Again - look at the original Trilogy which as a whole reflects the truimph of the Good Guys:

A New Hope (Reference Good Guys) The Empire Strikes Back (Reference Bad Guys) Return of the Jedi (Reference Good Guys)

I don't dispute that return of the Jedi could have multiple meanings. But whether it be the Jedi Order, Luke, or Anakin - they are still referenced in the title as Good Guys. We know this because of the Good Guy positive outcome of the Movie. Even if it references Anakin - it references a Good Anakin. That the Jedi (singular or plural) Returns is a Good thing. No assumtions here. The title in no way references the Bad Guys.

Go now to the Prequels: (Spoiler possible - Ep 2 Plot Points) x x x x x x x x x x x

This is where we don't yet have all the information. Just speculation on whether the Clones in ATOC are considered Good or Bad Guys. By what I've read here and what I've seen of plot points - the Clones will be fighting on the side of the Jedi in the area battle against the an army of battle droids (clearly evil in Episode 1). For the purposes of title mention and reference this gives credence to them being considered Good Guys.

We'll know the truth of that on May 16th....

If so we have the beginnings of the same pattern as the original trilogy - only reversed - as the focus of this prequel trilogy is the Rise of the Bad Guys.

The Phantom Menace (Reference to Bad Guys) Attack of the Clones (Reference to Good Guys) Episode 3 (Should be Reference to Bad Guys)

Once again I agree with you that the final title should have multiple meanings, but I still feel that the title will not be an ambiguous one in regards to which side of the conflict it references. 'An Ally Turns Away' references neither the Bad or the Good - it could be either. I don't think the pattern supports that assumption. I'm willing to go along with all of your grammatical assumptions, although I believe they are reading a bit into things, but I just can't believe that the final title would be quite so non-referencing of a side in the conflicts, given the pattern of all of the other titles.

There's also a greater pattern to the six movies if you put all of them together. It Alternates References in each movie:

The Phantom Menace (Reference to Bad Guys) Attack of the Clones (Reference to Good Guys) Episode 3 (Should be Reference to Bad Guys) A New Hope (Reference Good Guys) The Empire Strikes Back (Reference Bad Guys) Return of the Jedi (Reference Good Guys)

In the end, I propose that Episode 3's title will reference the Empire or Sith (this being a more likely candidate as like Jedi, it can mean the Sith Order, Vader, or Palpatine), yet still follow your grammatical conventions.

'The Sith Take Revenge' works in that sense, but I'm positive there's a better title out there.

'Ally' is too ambiguous - even for Lucasfilm.

Go ahead 'The Executor', make my day...

<SPOILERS FOR AOTC BELOW>

They're good, in the sense that they fight for the Republic alongside the Jedi. They're bad, in the sense that they were created by Palpatine who needs an army to serve him and needs a war to further destabilize the galaxy and give him the ability to declare himself Emperor.

Which means they're bad, all in a few years, everyone will say they were bad, since Palpatine will reveal himself in AOTC.

Go ahead 'The Executor', make my day...

It depends on your point of view. In AOTC they are good.

It seems we need to go to the 'source' for some clarification. While looking into all of this and actually researching an interesting post about Ep 1 and 2 proposed titles, I stumbled upon this interview with George Lucas about Titles for his Star Wars movies. This interview is circa 1999 and is billed as part 7 of a 7 part interview. I'll copy the interview here, then show the links if anyone wishes to check out more:

INTERVIEW:

INT: George, did you expect some fans to respond negatively to your title, The Phantom Menace?

LUCAS: If we were to go back to 1977 and I told the fans that I was going to title the first one, A New Hope, the fans would have the same reaction. They would be saying: 'What kind of title is that?' Well, it's the one I want to use. These movies are truly timeless. Fifty years from now no one is going to care what I titled this film. There just going to know it as that Phantom Menace movie.

INT: It seems that the title of Episode 1 and Episode 4 are somewhat parallel in structure, will the title of Episode 2 and Episode 5 also closely mirror one another?

LUCAS: The first Star Wars movie I did was about this new hope who was going to seek his destiny and save the galaxy from tyrrany. The new Star Wars movie focuses on a phantom menace, which sets in motion certain events that create the need for a new hope some thirty years later. A New Hope is a positive title, which uses positive words, while The Phantom Menace uses negative words in order to convey a negative meaning. Thematically, these titles are polar opposites. Episode 2 focuses on the successes of the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars while Episode 5 focuses on the successes of the Galactic Empire during their civil war with the rebels. Episode 3 is about the rise of the New Order, which is negative. In contrast, Episode 6 focuses on the return of the Jedi, which is positive. In the first trilogy, the first and third films had positive, feel good titles while the middle film had a negative title, which notes that the bad guys are in control. For the new trilogy, the first and third movies will have titles that have words that arouse a negative feeling and the second film will have a positively worded title to reflect the successes of the good guys.

INT: Have you selected the titles for Episode 2 and 3?

LUCAS: Yes.

INT: Can you share those titles with us?

LUCAS: Not yet.

INT: Are the titles that you will use for the Prequel Trilogy the ones that you came up with back in the 1970's?

LUCAS: Yes. The titles to these new films have been in my head for over 25 years.

INT: So this is the final title for Episode 1?

LUCAS: I'm going to use the title that I first came up with over 25 years ago.

INT: If The Phantom Menace were to perform poorly at the box office, will you still make the next two films?

LUCAS: No one can guarantee what's going to happen next summer, but everyone at Lucasfilm is working on this film as hard as possible. That's what we did on the first three and things turned out well. Regardless of what happens, I'll complete the new trilogy.

COMMENTARY:

From Lucas' mouth - the first and third movies of the new trilogy will have titles and words that arouse a negative feeling, while the 2nd Movie will have a title that arouses a positive feeling. It seems in Lucas' mind, at least, that the Clones in ATOC are Good.

While this new information doesn't prove either of our theories, Executor, it does shed some light and supports the Good/Bad theory with regards to the feelings the title is supposed to arouse...I tend to believe the final movie's title will be one that arouses a great deal of negative feeling. AATA still doesn't do that for me.

I came upon the interview while doing a google search for Episode I Titles. Links to the interview and it's host pages are below:
http://members.tripod.com/~prequelrumors/QandA7.html - Quoted Interview - # 7
http://members.tripod.com/~prequelrumors/lucaslfl.html - All Interviews in Series
http://members.tripod.com/~prequelrumors/soguco.html - Main Site Page